Comments on: Embrace the chaos http://managemetadata.org/blog/2009/02/25/embrace-the-chaos/ It's all about the services Mon, 12 Dec 2011 18:23:10 +0000 hourly 1 http://wordpress.org/?v=3.3.1 By: Liz http://managemetadata.org/blog/2009/02/25/embrace-the-chaos/comment-page-1/#comment-2476 Liz Fri, 27 Mar 2009 05:52:16 +0000 http://managemetadata.org/blog/2009/02/25/embrace-the-chaos/#comment-2476 Thanks for the post. If chaos means we can share stuff and not worry about controlling everything all the time (like academic articles that are so important that they have to be locked away in some database that you can only access if your library has paid a lot of dollars to a private company to let students and academics read papers that the universities produced in the first place), then we need it sooner than later. Thanks for the post. If chaos means we can share stuff and not worry about controlling everything all the time (like academic articles that are so important that they have to be locked away in some database that you can only access if your library has paid a lot of dollars to a private company to let students and academics read papers that the universities produced in the first place), then we need it sooner than later.

]]> By: Mal Booth http://managemetadata.org/blog/2009/02/25/embrace-the-chaos/comment-page-1/#comment-2458 Mal Booth Thu, 26 Mar 2009 09:40:39 +0000 http://managemetadata.org/blog/2009/02/25/embrace-the-chaos/#comment-2458 I like this. A lot. You've managed to express what I tried to say earlier this year at a conference. Good on you! I like this. A lot. You’ve managed to express what I tried to say earlier this year at a conference. Good on you!

]]> By: inkdroid » Blog Archive » c4l09 http://managemetadata.org/blog/2009/02/25/embrace-the-chaos/comment-page-1/#comment-2142 inkdroid » Blog Archive » c4l09 Wed, 04 Mar 2009 02:49:33 +0000 http://managemetadata.org/blog/2009/02/25/embrace-the-chaos/#comment-2142 [...] I’ve read a few accounts that capture important aspects of the event from: Terry Reese, Jon Phipps, Jay Luker, Declan Fleming, Richard Wallis (1,2,3), Dan Chudnov, Gabe [...] [...] I’ve read a few accounts that capture important aspects of the event from: Terry Reese, Jon Phipps, Jay Luker, Declan Fleming, Richard Wallis (1,2,3), Dan Chudnov, Gabe [...]

]]> By: Ross http://managemetadata.org/blog/2009/02/25/embrace-the-chaos/comment-page-1/#comment-2100 Ross Sat, 28 Feb 2009 14:48:23 +0000 http://managemetadata.org/blog/2009/02/25/embrace-the-chaos/#comment-2100 Phil, I'm a little curious how you go from Google creating acceptance for Sitemaps by "just doing it" to "Jangle is a crazy standard". Why is AtomPub the 'crazy standard' as opposed to SRU, OAI-PMH or NCIP? Phil, I’m a little curious how you go from Google creating acceptance for Sitemaps by “just doing it” to “Jangle is a crazy standard”. Why is AtomPub the ‘crazy standard’ as opposed to SRU, OAI-PMH or NCIP?

]]> By: phil.cryer http://managemetadata.org/blog/2009/02/25/embrace-the-chaos/comment-page-1/#comment-2090 phil.cryer Fri, 27 Feb 2009 16:19:09 +0000 http://managemetadata.org/blog/2009/02/25/embrace-the-chaos/#comment-2090 Agreed - the talks were all nice and good, but I don't want more cutting edge stuff before things that are out there are accepted. In other words, things coming down the pipe that look promising are cool, but they're usually still in development, it's time to draw a line in the sand so to speak and jump on something. Look at how Google standardized on sitemaps.xml? Now it's the standard thing search engines use to learn about sites, that's not to say that other standards are being ignored, but this is a good one to have. At Mobot I've got a server with hooks into searching our images site for Tropicos.org. I've got DiGIR, Tapir, OAI-PMH via Fedora-commons, and we have Biocase in the works for another option. So regardless of which is the latest/greatest (Biocase) most providers still use DiGIR - so we're covered. Yes, it creates more chaos as you mention, but I agree that it is a 'good thing' - it allows for more communication because we speak all these protocols. We're getting to do new things building from scratch for new sites here, but I always want to allow for the basic communication first before I go crazy and start supporting Jangle. Not that Jangle won't be useful, but it should compliment the earlier, more basic, standards that are used and easy to implement. I think it's a goofy saying, but it's like when Casey Cassim would say, "Keep your feet on the ground, and keep reaching for the stars" at the end of his radio show; it's apt here. Let's start sharing data via popular/accepted "standards" now, and build for the future to allow others. P (fak3r) Agreed – the talks were all nice and good, but I don’t want more cutting edge stuff before things that are out there are accepted. In other words, things coming down the pipe that look promising are cool, but they’re usually still in development, it’s time to draw a line in the sand so to speak and jump on something. Look at how Google standardized on sitemaps.xml? Now it’s the standard thing search engines use to learn about sites, that’s not to say that other standards are being ignored, but this is a good one to have. At Mobot I’ve got a server with hooks into searching our images site for Tropicos.org. I’ve got DiGIR, Tapir, OAI-PMH via Fedora-commons, and we have Biocase in the works for another option. So regardless of which is the latest/greatest (Biocase) most providers still use DiGIR – so we’re covered. Yes, it creates more chaos as you mention, but I agree that it is a ‘good thing’ – it allows for more communication because we speak all these protocols. We’re getting to do new things building from scratch for new sites here, but I always want to allow for the basic communication first before I go crazy and start supporting Jangle. Not that Jangle won’t be useful, but it should compliment the earlier, more basic, standards that are used and easy to implement.

I think it’s a goofy saying, but it’s like when Casey Cassim would say, “Keep your feet on the ground, and keep reaching for the stars” at the end of his radio show; it’s apt here. Let’s start sharing data via popular/accepted “standards” now, and build for the future to allow others.

P (fak3r)

]]> By: Ross http://managemetadata.org/blog/2009/02/25/embrace-the-chaos/comment-page-1/#comment-2083 Ross Fri, 27 Feb 2009 05:13:58 +0000 http://managemetadata.org/blog/2009/02/25/embrace-the-chaos/#comment-2083 The clique-ish-ness... Yes. I have no idea how to reduce that, and, yes, I realize that I contribute to the problem. That doesn't mean that I don't also get irritated by it. I guess I understand why you'd have this reaction to Code4Lib. I suppose if libraries didn't keep my lights on I would have a hard time getting interested in the presentations, as well. I wouldn't want to attend Code4Actuaries, for example. The part after the 4 is probably the important context setter. I do think there should be some emphasis on 'harnessing the chaos', however. This is why the FRBR talk was actually important. This is why the Freebase talk was important (slide backgrounds notwithstanding). It's an ugly, chaotic world that is only going to get uglier as the information space grows wider and faster. Providing some semblance of cohesion in this chaos for a particular community (or communities) is the sort of role libraries need to be taking. It was good meeting you and hanging out with you. I get what you're saying in this post. A nice followup might be what it would take for a library to be relevant to you. The clique-ish-ness… Yes. I have no idea how to reduce that, and, yes, I realize that I contribute to the problem. That doesn’t mean that I don’t also get irritated by it.

I guess I understand why you’d have this reaction to Code4Lib. I suppose if libraries didn’t keep my lights on I would have a hard time getting interested in the presentations, as well. I wouldn’t want to attend Code4Actuaries, for example. The part after the 4 is probably the important context setter.

I do think there should be some emphasis on ‘harnessing the chaos’, however. This is why the FRBR talk was actually important. This is why the Freebase talk was important (slide backgrounds notwithstanding). It’s an ugly, chaotic world that is only going to get uglier as the information space grows wider and faster. Providing some semblance of cohesion in this chaos for a particular community (or communities) is the sort of role libraries need to be taking.

It was good meeting you and hanging out with you. I get what you’re saying in this post. A nice followup might be what it would take for a library to be relevant to you.

]]> By: Tim http://managemetadata.org/blog/2009/02/25/embrace-the-chaos/comment-page-1/#comment-2073 Tim Thu, 26 Feb 2009 04:54:19 +0000 http://managemetadata.org/blog/2009/02/25/embrace-the-chaos/#comment-2073 You know, I agree with much of what you say. I can't gin up my interest in most of the talks either. And the cliquish feeling irks me too. I'm part of this community somehow, and yet feel profoundly alienated from it. And I think you're damn-right about the "mess." But I don't understand not visiting the library in ten years. David Weinberger says this too—that he never visits the library, namely Widener. Can I have his library card? Can I have yours? I know you're a book person from last night's conversation—something that would be apparent anyway. Maybe it's time to go back, and get seriously, messily lost in the stacks. You know, I agree with much of what you say. I can’t gin up my interest in most of the talks either. And the cliquish feeling irks me too. I’m part of this community somehow, and yet feel profoundly alienated from it. And I think you’re damn-right about the “mess.”

But I don’t understand not visiting the library in ten years. David Weinberger says this too—that he never visits the library, namely Widener. Can I have his library card? Can I have yours? I know you’re a book person from last night’s conversation—something that would be apparent anyway. Maybe it’s time to go back, and get seriously, messily lost in the stacks.

]]> By: Shirley http://managemetadata.org/blog/2009/02/25/embrace-the-chaos/comment-page-1/#comment-2070 Shirley Thu, 26 Feb 2009 00:06:26 +0000 http://managemetadata.org/blog/2009/02/25/embrace-the-chaos/#comment-2070 This is a great post. I totally agree that libraries need open and flexible systems, to find ways to exploit freely available services offered by Google and social networking sites for our own purposes rather than trying to "compete" with them, share more, and generally pay attention and respond more nimbly to the rapidly evolving information sphere. I find it difficult to understand what you think libraries should be doing if not playing some role in helping users to navigate and make sense of the chaotic information environment. Which, in my mind at least, involves at least some form of organization (aka exerting some level of control over at least a portion of the chaos). What does a library that "embraces the chaos" do? This is a great post. I totally agree that libraries need open and flexible systems, to find ways to exploit freely available services offered by Google and social networking sites for our own purposes rather than trying to “compete” with them, share more, and generally pay attention and respond more nimbly to the rapidly evolving information sphere. I find it difficult to understand what you think libraries should be doing if not playing some role in helping users to navigate and make sense of the chaotic information environment. Which, in my mind at least, involves at least some form of organization (aka exerting some level of control over at least a portion of the chaos). What does a library that “embraces the chaos” do?

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