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	<title>Comments on: FRBR vs. FRBR-ization</title>
	<link>http://managemetadata.org/blog/2009/07/18/frbr-vs-frbr-ization/</link>
	<description>It's all about the services</description>
	<pubDate>Tue, 07 Sep 2010 18:59:58 +0000</pubDate>
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		<title>By: Jonathan Rochkind</title>
		<link>http://managemetadata.org/blog/2009/07/18/frbr-vs-frbr-ization/#comment-5083</link>
		<author>Jonathan Rochkind</author>
		<pubDate>Tue, 21 Jul 2009 15:02:59 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid>http://managemetadata.org/blog/2009/07/18/frbr-vs-frbr-ization/#comment-5083</guid>
		<description>I actually think of the FRBR model itself as a work in progress. The FRBR report, especially when it comes to relationships, frequently actually says things along the lines of "these are just examples, more work is needed."

So I think of RDA as continuing that work in progress, of fleshing out and formalizing things further.  So I'm not sure it's quite right/useful to say "those things aren't FRBR, but RDA" -- I think FRBR, at least as contained in the report, is more of an _approach_ than a formal model. And RDA is an attempt to make it into a bit more of a formal model.  Which is a good thing. 

But it's worth pointing that out, as you do, that RDA does indeed have more specifics than the model in the FRBR report alone.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I actually think of the FRBR model itself as a work in progress. The FRBR report, especially when it comes to relationships, frequently actually says things along the lines of &#8220;these are just examples, more work is needed.&#8221;</p>
<p>So I think of RDA as continuing that work in progress, of fleshing out and formalizing things further.  So I&#8217;m not sure it&#8217;s quite right/useful to say &#8220;those things aren&#8217;t FRBR, but RDA&#8221; &#8212; I think FRBR, at least as contained in the report, is more of an _approach_ than a formal model. And RDA is an attempt to make it into a bit more of a formal model.  Which is a good thing. </p>
<p>But it&#8217;s worth pointing that out, as you do, that RDA does indeed have more specifics than the model in the FRBR report alone.</p>
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		<title>By: Heidi Hoerman</title>
		<link>http://managemetadata.org/blog/2009/07/18/frbr-vs-frbr-ization/#comment-5067</link>
		<author>Heidi Hoerman</author>
		<pubDate>Mon, 20 Jul 2009 19:41:29 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid>http://managemetadata.org/blog/2009/07/18/frbr-vs-frbr-ization/#comment-5067</guid>
		<description>I do think that we are going about this all wrong.  Because we haven't yet figured out the framework to replace MARC bibliographic records we are going to try to force RDA into compatibility with MARC format bibliographic records.  We need to look at things the other way around.

First and foremost, FRBR does not rely on the stand alone bibliographic record as we know it.  MARC relies on the concept of bibliographic records just like cards.  FRBR relies on clustering related data.

Until we fully understand what this change in the shape of the data means I think the effort that will be spend training folks to shoehorn RDA data into standard MARC records is not going to result in what FRBR promises.

Anyway, in my trying-to-twist-my-head-around-this way, I'm agreeing with you ... I think.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I do think that we are going about this all wrong.  Because we haven&#8217;t yet figured out the framework to replace MARC bibliographic records we are going to try to force RDA into compatibility with MARC format bibliographic records.  We need to look at things the other way around.</p>
<p>First and foremost, FRBR does not rely on the stand alone bibliographic record as we know it.  MARC relies on the concept of bibliographic records just like cards.  FRBR relies on clustering related data.</p>
<p>Until we fully understand what this change in the shape of the data means I think the effort that will be spend training folks to shoehorn RDA data into standard MARC records is not going to result in what FRBR promises.</p>
<p>Anyway, in my trying-to-twist-my-head-around-this way, I&#8217;m agreeing with you &#8230; I think.</p>
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		<title>By: Diane Hillmann</title>
		<link>http://managemetadata.org/blog/2009/07/18/frbr-vs-frbr-ization/#comment-5063</link>
		<author>Diane Hillmann</author>
		<pubDate>Mon, 20 Jul 2009 15:11:20 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid>http://managemetadata.org/blog/2009/07/18/frbr-vs-frbr-ization/#comment-5063</guid>
		<description>Jonathan:

Thanks for the pointer to the Schneider/Denton Code4Lib presentation--it does make one of my points much better than I did!  The other point, though, is that there are a plethora of relationships between the FRBR entities that aren't FRBR, but RDA, and you don't get those either with a FRBR-ization strategy. It's those relationships that are largely overlooked when people think about RDA and what it buys us.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Jonathan:</p>
<p>Thanks for the pointer to the Schneider/Denton Code4Lib presentation&#8211;it does make one of my points much better than I did!  The other point, though, is that there are a plethora of relationships between the FRBR entities that aren&#8217;t FRBR, but RDA, and you don&#8217;t get those either with a FRBR-ization strategy. It&#8217;s those relationships that are largely overlooked when people think about RDA and what it buys us.</p>
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		<title>By: Jonathan Rochkind</title>
		<link>http://managemetadata.org/blog/2009/07/18/frbr-vs-frbr-ization/#comment-5028</link>
		<author>Jonathan Rochkind</author>
		<pubDate>Sun, 19 Jul 2009 02:57:38 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid>http://managemetadata.org/blog/2009/07/18/frbr-vs-frbr-ization/#comment-5028</guid>
		<description>This point is similar to the thesis of Bill Denton and Jodi Schneider's presentation at the last Code4Lib:


What We Talk About When We Talk About FRBR 
video: http://code4lib.org/conference/2009/schneider
slides: http://code4lib.org/files/frbr_code4lib09.pdf</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>This point is similar to the thesis of Bill Denton and Jodi Schneider&#8217;s presentation at the last Code4Lib:</p>
<p>What We Talk About When We Talk About FRBR<br />
video: <a href="http://code4lib.org/conference/2009/schneider" rel="nofollow">http://code4lib.org/conference/2009/schneider</a><br />
slides: <a href="http://code4lib.org/files/frbr_code4lib09.pdf" rel="nofollow">http://code4lib.org/files/frbr_code4lib09.pdf</a></p>
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